Curse

cagan · Jul 12, 2006, 07:13 AM // 07:13

The touchie is really just a build that thrives on warriors who aren't packing knockdowns (or average->low skilled assasins).
Not to say that a touchie will always beat these 2 groups, but they are certainly built to have a good shot at it.

Is it such a bad thing that theres something sword/axe warriors need to avoid/run from? Sure, they haven't had to up till now, but is it immediately unbalanced that something has come along?
If these warriors/sins keep back and let their support team have loose at the touchie he will fall quickly, since they are lacking any real self heal/utility spells to protect from most ranged assaults (with you out of melee range)

I mean .. as a elementalist .. you would run back from a mesmer full of interrupts, as a monk, you would fall back from a assassin coming at your throat, and we accept this. 'Support' classes getting their butts handed to them by either other 'support' classes, or a melee class is fine and balanced and noone whines.
But a 'ranger' causing a reasonable percentage of the 'warrior' types (which again, includes most sword/axe warriors, and average->low skilled assassins) to need to fall back is a disaster and unbalanced.
...
I'll never understand people.

Looking at Ozric's post above is like what i'm getting at. He was busy flogging up a touchie just fine. A overconfident warrior with the incorrect skills for the job ran at the touchie, and *bam* suddenly the touchie is doing ok.
Sure in Ozric's case the touchie still died, but it presents the point.

Touchies are highly specialised at what they target ... but with high specialisation, comes high weakness to anything else.
Whatever your class/skillset/team makeup .. accept your role, accept that all builds have weaknesses, and either adapt, or ensure when you run into your weakness, the rest of your team can make up for it.

TheLordOfBlah · Jul 12, 2006, 07:36 AM // 07:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by The truth itself

The problem isn't that they are overpowered, it's just that it is a completely skillless build, and that needs to be fixed.

Woah so its a build that requires to skill, but also sucks balls, therefore theyre a problem? I fail to see the logic in that.

They do like NO damage at all. BUT WAIT! OH NOES THERE ARE 4 OF THEM. Look, they have one button alone to counter the touch ranger. "R" :O

The description for R in the controll window should be changed to "Make the touch ranger useless. Someone said "oh well that can counter anything" Right... if they dont have knockdown, speed skills, crippling etc. Which touch rangers DONT have.

However if thats not enough, ill list a counter for all professions

monk:their AOE spells help, last time i checked monk had some knockdown too...
ranger: interrupts/cripple
ele: wards
warrior: knockdown
necro: touch em back
mesmer: about every skill they have
assassin: why would you go after a sin?
ritualist: the spirits whose names i cant think of.

Faer · Jul 12, 2006, 07:44 AM // 07:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLordOfBlah

ele: wards

Before anyone calls Blah on this, with some "oh, well wards don't work against touchers!"...

Ward Against Foes.

TheLordOfBlah · Jul 12, 2006, 07:56 AM // 07:56

Yea thats the one in particular I was thinking of. Thanks for that =P.

Zakarr · Jul 12, 2006, 08:02 AM // 08:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by cagan

Is it such a bad thing that theres something sword/axe warriors need to avoid/run from?

Of course because warriors are godly characters. Especially heavy tankers must survive everything or some skills are unbalanced.

Touchers are usually nightmare for melee attackers so no wonder when popular profession meets popular build, someone is going to cry.

Warriors, just eat your ego and run. You have to fear something too just like anyone else.

Edge Martinez · Jul 12, 2006, 08:15 AM // 08:15

The only warrior we hate seeing? The ones with /E. That's if we're solo though. If we're solo, we're to blame. I hear people say good assassins can beat a toucher. I'm swimming in amber, all from ABs, and I've never come across an assassin that can go one up. All the same, I love an assassin on my team, because good assassins may not kill a caster, but they sure take them out of the equation.

reverse_oreo · Jul 12, 2006, 04:40 PM // 16:40

i hate these threads.....i can kill a touch ranger with any character i have. GET OVER IT, the build is in the game, and will be in the game forever. stop your bitching and learn to counter builds. thakn yuo

Theus · Jul 12, 2006, 05:56 PM // 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by reverse_oreo

i hate these threads.....i can kill a touch ranger with any character i have. GET OVER IT, the build is in the game, and will be in the game forever. stop your bitching and learn to counter builds. thakn yuo

Well then,why don't you post some of your good builds and then threads like these won't have to exist.

belshazaarswrath · Jul 12, 2006, 06:08 PM // 18:08

Touch rangers are easy to kill.

Step one cripple them
Step two hit them with arrows till they die.

Or if your a mes suck there energy dry and spike them to death.

Dinkytowner · Jul 12, 2006, 06:09 PM // 18:09

Wow this sounds oddly like all the iway flaming threads....

My old argument against iway holds true here as well. Quit bitching about them and just run them into the ground. Touch rangers suck. They may work in RA where you have the HH Wammos trying to tank the world, but anywhere else they are crap. Touchie team = free fame in HA.

belshazaarswrath · Jul 12, 2006, 06:25 PM // 18:25

Well the only reason that peopel don't liek it is that it is very easy to use and works. But usually builds liek that are easy to counter.

J3mo · Jul 13, 2006, 01:08 AM // 01:08

The build is lame, noobs who play only press 1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2 and skilled people who play are even lamer and should be ashamed

cagan · Jul 13, 2006, 07:17 AM // 07:17

I see,
So, if its easy to play, its lame. And skilled people playing something easy (that works mind you) should be ashamed. ...
..
How many builds are hard to play, i mean really, you have your combo's, the button you press when you need to run, the button you press when a warrior is pounding you. Sure, a skillful player can do things better, but when it comes down to it, most builds are fairly simple.

Any competitive game is going to have people using what works, honing and refining things that already work tends to be a solid way to rise up in any game.

Its a easy build to mash keys with and do okay, but there is still skill involved in playing it *well*. Mashing '1' and '2' will only get people some wins some of the time, there is some effort and practice involved in playing it successfully.

And of course, this build hasn't only just come into existence ... factions may have offered a few skills that made it a more obvious build, but people were running touchers before factions, was it lame then?

RTSFirebat · Jul 13, 2006, 07:44 AM // 07:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by J3mo

The build is lame, noobs who play only press 1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2 and skilled people who play are even lamer and should be ashamed

So Ranger Spike or Blood Spike...

1, 2, 3 SPIKE... isn't lame?

Sorry but your logic is simply not there

Orinn · Jul 13, 2006, 07:54 AM // 07:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zakarr

Of course because warriors are godly characters. Especially heavy tankers must survive everything or some skills are unbalanced.

Touchers are usually nightmare for melee attackers so no wonder when popular profession meets popular build, someone is going to cry.

Warriors, just eat your ego and run. You have to fear something too just like anyone else.

Warriors do one thing. Melee. Same, to a lesser extent, for assassins. The whole purpose of these classes is that they have the skills to deal damage and survive in melee range. When a build is ccreated taht completely negates all melee advantages of a warrior except for knockdowns, then the issue becomes "is this unbalancing?"

When the chioces for a warrior become "run a hammer build or fall to all the touch rangers" then there IS a balance issue. Melee classes SHOULD be able to deal with rangers in melee range. The fact that the 2 spammable skills are not classified as attacks is a gross mistake. Touch rangers have all of the strengths of a melee class- heavy damage in melee, evasion abilities, with none of the corresponding weaknesses- blindness, high-armor targets, evasion abilities used by the opponent. When a build is inherently better at a thing than the entire class that was designed around it, the balance issues are obvious.

I can't see any reason to defend the abuse of 2 skills that are unbalancing the game. When warriors and assassins have to build to either counter touch rangers, or they die, then SOMETHING is going to have to give. I don't see any reason to continue letting touch rangers exploit the rules, at the expense of the balance ANet has tried hard to create.

Mera Regila · Jul 13, 2006, 08:27 AM // 08:27

Touch Rangers may be considered a good build in some ways. Like the fact that their origional creator was probably a quite good player. Taking advantage of the fact that Vampiric Touch and Vampiric Bite were skills, and did 65 damage per. Expertise works on skills, this player took advantage of that to make a DECENT build that is, sadly, favored by noobs. With touches being 3/4 of a second, and you can fit 4 of those in three seconds, 65 damage per touch, you can do 260 damage every 3 seconds, thats decent dps, AND you get all of it as health.

Touch Rangers aren't the WORST build out there, i'd save that spot for two of ANet's preset builds. Paladin and Dark Flame, they are probably the worst presets there, worse than touches. Touch Rangers' dps simply pales in comparison to the dps of many other builds.

Mera Regila · Jul 13, 2006, 08:32 AM // 08:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLordOfBlah

Woah so its a build that requires to skill, but also sucks balls, therefore theyre a problem? I fail to see the logic in that.

They do like NO damage at all. BUT WAIT! OH NOES THERE ARE 4 OF THEM. Look, they have one button alone to counter the touch ranger. "R" :O

The description for R in the controll window should be changed to "Make the touch ranger useless. Someone said "oh well that can counter anything" Right... if they dont have knockdown, speed skills, crippling etc. Which touch rangers DONT have.

However if thats not enough, ill list a counter for all professions

monk:their AOE spells help, last time i checked monk had some knockdown too...
ranger: interrupts/cripple
ele: wards
warrior: knockdown
necro: touch em back
mesmer: about every skill they have
assassin: why would you go after a sin?
ritualist: the spirits whose names i cant think of.

It is a decent build, doesn't "suck balls" like you imply. Like someone said earlier, it's good in AB as a capping troop because those npcs dont kite out of the way.

The R key doesn't completely neutralize touch rangers, it helps to lower their dps this is true, but not completely. Most touch rangers take Dodge or Zoujin's Haste to chase down kiters. Touches don't count as attacks, so the touch can touch all he wants without the stance ending prematurely.

Ure Maker · Jul 13, 2006, 10:02 AM // 10:02

there all in AB atm for me but my assasin pretty much takes them out,

and to the remark about nerfing that means the actual Necros out there that blood spike are gonna get nerfed for something they didnt do

Theus · Jul 13, 2006, 12:06 PM // 12:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by J3mo

The build is lame, noobs who play only press 1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2 and skilled people who play are even lamer and should be ashamed

Lol.Ashamed for playing a build in a video game.Please.Theres no honor in a RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing video game.Theres two outcomes and only two outcomes,You're either a winner or a loser.Whether its with a touch ranger or otherwise.

Edge Martinez · Jul 14, 2006, 05:31 AM // 05:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orinn

Warriors do one thing. Melee. Same, to a lesser extent, for assassins. The whole purpose of these classes is that they have the skills to deal damage and survive in melee range. When a build is ccreated taht completely negates all melee advantages of a warrior except for knockdowns, then the issue becomes "is this unbalancing?"

That statement is more "last year" than Nelly. The warriors you speak of do two things now... melee and whine here. The OTHER warriors are busy racking up amber and jadeite, because they have learned how to cast. Novel concept, I know, but...

And Assassins, to a lesser extent, have skills to survive in melee range? Unless Anet's latest update added a skill named 'Platemail and a shield', I'm not sure which GW you've been playing. They can, however, deal damage. And the ones who noticed they have a secondary profession? They're swimming in amber too, although their pool will always be shallower.

As for completely negating all melee advantages of a warrior except for KDs (which I also think is incorrect), then we're even, because in creating a toucher, we've pretty much negated all ranger advantages except stances. But like those OTHER warriors, we've started using our secondary skillset instead.

Edit: Come to think about it... most all known builds screw over warriors, directly or indirectly. My Me/W beat a Wammo in an AB showdown the other night using two skills, Illusionary Weaponry and Distortion... come to think of it, all I did was press 1,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,etc. OMG... and I think I negated ALL melee advantages, including KDs! Nerf the Mesmer!